The insurance usually covers the cost of damages to the home, but not damages caused by natural disasters or fires if they have polybutylene pipes. Make sure that any reviews that you rely on are authentic. In a hurry? Finding out that your dream house has polybutylene pipes can be discouraging, and it might sway your decision on whether to buy the home and rightfully so, these types of pipes can be risky. Facts vs. Fiction 6. This does not include any repairs for water damage or mold. loan They will keep the property and rent it to tenants. You sell your home without having to spend the time and money needed to fix it. Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? Home inspectors often detect polybutylene plumbing lines, but they are not generally required to report it, and so it may go unaddressed. What are the code requirements for plumbing vent terminations? Even though most potential buyers would hesitate to go for a house with polybutylene pipes, there are always specific buyers interested in it these type of properties, as we have discussed earlier. If the seller discloses this up front, the buyer can not request the replacement of the pipes if they wait to make an issue of it until the Inspection Period even though it is considered a defective product. Even though the information on this web page is provided by a qualified industry expert, it should not be considered as legal, tax, financial or investment advice. Nowadays, people prefer to have PEX pipes fitted into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Polybutylene pipes are no longer recognized by building codes not only in South Florida, but throughout the United States and Canada. However, these small leaks will eventually deteriorate the area surrounding them and, over time, will cause a great deal of damage regardless of the size of the leakage. PEX pipes last a very long time, and over the years, people have faced little to no issues with these pipes becoming fragile, breaking, and leaking. Almost all states make you disclose whether or not you are aware of any material defects in the property. The rupturing of polybutylene pipes can lead to a large-scale leakage, which will affect the houses structure at its very base, risking its strength. In your case asking for $50k discount plus $20k probably wouldn't work. How far should stair nosing stick out? Here's why: Polybutylene pipes will eventually fail, meaning that they will burst open at some point. A potential buyer of a home with polybutylene pipes would need to have the experience to look at the property and understand the problem. 14 Facts You DO NOT need to disclose when selling your home in North Carolina: If your home has polybutylene pipes. When it comes to removing polybutylene and installing a new plumbing system, our team of professionals exceeds all customer expectations. Evidence of that can prove that your seller is liable includes: Timeline testimony from your contractor When it comes to selling a house with polybutylene pipes, it can be quite a challenge. We do a steady stream of polybutylene pipe replacement - and it's been a long time since we last heard of someone having any legal recourse in getting their quest pipe repipe costs reimbursed. A few will accept it as long as the homeowner agrees to an unusually high deductible for any water damage claim. Polybutylene pipes were quite popular back in the day when there was little variation in the materials used to make water pipes. Why is polybutylene piping bad? (They've lived in the home since 1990 and the husband has done a lot of DIY work in the home so it's unlikely he didn't know about the PB piping). When youre looking at a home, look for the typical gray polybutylene pipes in places around the washing machine, under sinks, and in crawl spaces or basements. Pests. Look for reviews online on sites like Facebook, Google, and Yelp. Make sure you call Florida Statewide Insurance today so you can get all of the Polybutylene Pipes Insurance coverage options available. The pipes would have to be removed and examined. What about polybutylene ("poly") pipes - are sellers/agents required to disclose? Most of these forms require the seller to disclose information related to polybutylene pipes. For this, your professional plumber would need to identify polybutylene pipes by excavating them. Does a Seller Have to Disclose Polybutylene Pipes? After that, building codes around the country no longer allowed the use of polybutylene pipes in new construction. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; Polybutylene pipes were first produced in the mid-1970s. You have to prove willful intent of the sellers withholding that information from you so it will be hard to prove that in court as well. If you have polybutylene plumbing, your insurer may specifically exclude PB pipe repair and any water damage caused by it. This way you can decide which method is right for you. However, the total cost of repiping a house may be as high as $15,000 depending on a variety of factors. If spending money on inspections makes you uncomfortable, you might reconsider whether you want to purchase a home or if you should keep renting. This can be a good idea if you have made up your mind about purchasing the house because it is better to get the re-piping done before moving into the home. The problem became so widespread and the damages so severe that many insurance companies will refuse to issue a homeowners policy to a home with polybutylene pipes in place, or may write the policy to exclude any damage resulting from failure. If the Seller refuses to return your money, you would have to file a lawsuit against the Seller. https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. "Usually, they've already [replaced the pipes] because they've been made aware when they bought the house." There is a place for the seller to disclose the presence of polybutylene. So, the buyer should be fully aware of the risks of inherent in Polybutylene. The big problem with polybutylene (PB) piping is that it's difficult to insure. In reality, getting polybutylene pipes replaced does not cost more than, for example, recarpeting your home would cost you. Poly-pipes are well known in the industry for their propensity to fail. Homeowners can determine whether they have polybutylene plumbing systems by looking in the attic, basement, behind the walls or the near the water heater where the plumbing system is exposed. Were going to look at both ways of selling your home and the factors that you need to think about with each option. Hard to say if your realtor was intentionally deceptive or not, but, ultimately it's not going to be her problem if you get leaks. Polybutylene is a form of plastic pipe used in residential plumbing until the late-1990s. They buy houses for cash so that they dont depend on a lenders approval of their loan, unlike most buyers. Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? Why is old galvanized steel water pipe a problem for homebuyers? loans I have inspection contingency so I have the option of walking away. We completed all our inspections (structural, septic, water, pest, home), the bank ordered the appraisal, the Realtor hired the attorney. Copper pipes also have natural antimicrobial properties, which help ensure a reduced risk of bacterial growth in the water pipes. What can you do if you buy a home and later discover something was omitted from seller disclosure? Polybutylene piping isn't inherently bad. Even home inspectors cant tell you how far along the damage has progressed. You just have to know who your prospective buyers are, where to find them, and what other factors of such a deal you should consider. If it hasn't been long, I believe in some areas both sellers are required to disclose it if they're aware and home inspectors are required to note it if they see it. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. Lately, we've seen a spike of homeowners contacting us - when their insurance company imposed rate increases and/or applied exclusions of leak coverage, even when there had been no claims or poly pipe leaks. All Rights Reserved. They seemed to be a perfect material for plumbing pipes because they were inexpensive and held up well under high water pressures. Also the appraisal, bank fees, attorney fees, due diligence and earnest money. Minerals in the water, particularly chlorine that was used for purification reacted poorly with the pipes. However, there are two ways you can sell your home in situations like this. What is the difference between PVC and ABS plumbing pipe? As for proving they lied, isn't the Disclosure Statement in the contract enough proof--there were boxes to select and polybutylene was left unchecked. A little about the house its a 3200 Sq ft house with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they listed for 550k. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? Our Realtor is not being helpful as she doesn't want us to walk away. She wants her X-thousand(s) of dollars from you and that's her priority. It is estimated that a lot of homes built during that time still have the original plumbing in place. You need to make sure that youre working with an investor who is experienced in buying homes like yours. Can You Sell a House With Polybutylene Pipes? To have a lawsuit for non-disclosure you must show seller knew and did not disclose. Since every individuals situation is unique, a qualified professional should be consulted before making financial decisions. In that case, you might start freaking out about what to do next because, as we have already discussed above, there are some significant downsides to polybutylene pipes. The first option would be to find someone who would be willing to buy your house the way it is. If polybutylene pipes had to be disclosed to me when I was getting an inspection on a home but sellers said No Representation. Although there are good solutions for re-piping now, it's definitely worth getting a quote. Why is it a problem? . I did find out that if you're on city water the polybutylene problems can be even worse because chlorine in the municipal water will degrade the pipes even quicker. Are you looking for information about polybutylene piping (aka Quest pipe, poly-b, pb-1 pipe, or just plain "poly pipe")? Therefore, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money. This would either be done by a broker working for you, or by yourself as a For Sale By Owner (FSBO). In this article, we will be explaining what exactly is wrong with the old-fashioned polybutylene pipes in your home, as well as helpful information on how to replace them. Does a repipe include drain pipes? The entire process is simplified for you. This could potentially make you liable for lawsuits from your buyer. and When was polybutylene pipe banned? The second option will take more time and money but it may result in a higher price for your home. Lets start by looking at 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and selling a home with polybutylene pipes. Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? If your plumber lets you know that the polybutylene pipes in the house are old and already have fractures and cracks, you might think about having them repaired. They work with property values in your area every day. When I was looking for homeowners insurance one company asked what kind of pipes the house had. And again, in 1989. We are not affiliated with, and do not receive any compensation from, any of the companies or products mentioned in this blog. Research suggests that polybutylene pipes are prone to becoming brittle and cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage. Polybutylene is a type of plastic potable water plumbing commonly found in many US homes built from the late 1970's through to the mid-1990's. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. . Some investors are called house flippers. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. What is the difference between PVC and ABS plumbing pipe? Our work is 100% guaranteed for life, and we are fully licensed in the states where we operate. Now You Know. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. Code requirements cited may have been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your area. The second option would be to fix the issue related to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home on the market. You can, however, replace the polybutylene pipes with PEX piping. Looking for your dream house can be difficult; finding a home that you like and a place that has exactly what youve been looking for can be challenging and time-consuming as well. We don't know of any laws that would prevent you from selling a home with polybutylene piping (building codes don't permit poly pipes in new construction or remodels). I guess she could have forgotten about it, but what if she asked the seller and found out and then never said anything? An investor can close more quickly. Copper pipes cost a little more than PEX pipes, and the price ranges between $2.50 and $3.50 per linear foot. What does polybutylene pipe look like? As mentioned above, the main problem with polybutylene pipes is that they are too fragile in the long run and become very weak from the inside and subsequently crack. We perform many polybutylene repipe quotes for sellers planning a sale - or even for buyers, who want to factor repipe costs into their offers: even when there has been no history of PB pipe failures. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? If you're still not sure, call us. Now, the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes fail; the problem is that they fail more than any other type of plumbing. Look for online reviews and go to BBB.com to see if there are unresolved complaints lodged against them with the Better Business Bureau. This can end up becoming quite a problem in the long run as your insurance will not cover the cost of damage if your house has polybutylene pipes, which is why it is essential to keep this in mind when purchasing a home with polybutylene pipes. Facts vs. Fiction 7. What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? ; M.B.A.; J.D. They've had the house for 4 year so I doubt they did not know about them. However, other options are available, such as CPVC pipes and copper pipes. having polybutylene pipes and fittings that haven't leaked yet. No, it is no longer produced. Joined: Jun 2012. But read the fine print: If a buyer asks, this same statute requires the seller to disclose any death on the property more than 3 years old. Rhenius said, "I didn't disclose to tenants the water had lead in it because I didn't think it did with the system I bought." The house was sold in August for $477,500, according to . Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. McGarry and Madsen's home inspection blog for buyers of, site-built, mobile/manfuactured and modular homes. However, many insurance companies do not cover the damages caused to homes due to natural disasters or fires with polybutylene pipes. In a hurry? https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. borrowing Another significant aspect of buying a house with polybutylene pipes is the insurance problem that might come along with it. Buy a new build with 10 year warranty. We allow you to close on your home with affordable Homeowners Insurance. Polybutylene is a type of plastic potable water plumbing commonly found in many US homes built from the late 1970's through to the mid-1990's. Compared to copper, it was inexpensive, easy to install, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing. That buyer will probably want to negotiate the asking price and reduce it because they have to replace the plumbing, costing them extra money. Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. Our repipes come with a lifetime warranty, can include drywall repair, and can often be completed in 1 or 2 days. Although most of the public will be hesitant to buy a home where polybutylene plumbing has been disclosed, there are buyers for this type of property. The realtor actually removed all the copper piping to scrap for meth money, and replaced it all with polybutylene piping. One of the most important things that need to be considered is the plumbing within the house. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I've been conducting professional home inspections since 2002. As with the second option, which involves replacing your pipes yourself before selling, you must first inspect your pipes. If you want to learn more about this option, you can read our detailed guide about selling your house to an investor. It also said check all that apply. Privacy Policy. The damage occurs along the internal pipe walls. Since there is such great money in the polybutylene pipe scheming game, they're probably all in it together! So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. Most of our repipes fall somewhere between $4,500 and $15,000. Polybutylene is not the same as CPVC or PVC piping, nor should it be confused with modern cross-linked polyethylene ("Pex") piping. Also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing. We've spent $3000 on all the inspections and might have to add more to that for bank and attorney's fees (not sure yet about how much that would add). Most states have stricter . You should discuss with them the different kinds of pipes available and the cost of each. Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? Please include a message before submitting. For more information, please see our Some forums can only be seen by registered members. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? Honestly, I don't think that the sellers were being dishonest or intentionally with holding the fact that the pipes are polybutylene. Polybutylene pipes (settlement, seller, disclosure, house) User Name: Remember Me: Password Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! The seller: Nearly every U.S. state has laws requiring sellers to advise buyers of certain defects in the property, typically by filling out a standard disclosure form before the sale is completed. We have already researched and vetted the top real estate investors from across the industry. What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? Permitting your renovation will cost $70 to $400 depending on where you live. if the sellers had disclosed the pipe material in the beginning. When polybutylene leaks occur in US plumbing systems, the leaks are often at or near connectors. The primary manufacturers of the pipe were Shell Chemical Company, Qest (pronounced "quest"), and Vanguard. Why is Your Water Heater Leaking From Overflow Pipe? They were often sold under the brand name Quest, and can be referred to with a variety of terms; including PB, PB-1, poly-pipes, or poly-b pipe. PB piping has not been used for drain and sewer lines, nor vent piping. If the Seller wants to ignore the poly issue, ask them to sign a Release Agreement, indemnifying you of all potential liability. Polybutylene (PB) is a plastic used for piping in home plumbing systems that were manufactured between 1978 and mid-1995. They dont have to rely on lenders, appraisers, or third-party inspectors. Pipes cannot contain polybutylene, a material that could make them more prone to bursting. Check for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the basement or attic. Can You Sell a House with Polybutylene Pipes? Our expertise shows in every repipe we do and is with you every step of the way. This means that you dont have to wait to find out if your buyer can get their final loan approval. Can you connect CPVC pipe directly to a gas water heater? Just got my inspection back on a house in Vancouver I put an offer down and turns out the house built in 93 has polybutylene pipes. Can I Sell My House with a Property, State or IRS Tax Lien? first time homebuyer, Press J to jump to the feed. The second option would consume some of your money and time, but the good part is that it would result in a higher selling price for your home. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. They collect rental income over time and can sell the property later. If they don't agree, though, we are going to have to walk away. Get quotes and review them for completeness. In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are substandard and present realtors with an issue for their clients - both sellers and buyers. Unlike most buyers getting an inspection on a home but sellers said no Representation the Better Business.! For life, and so it may go unaddressed of your home and the that. Make you liable for lawsuits from your buyer can get all of most! Researched and vetted the top real estate investors from across the industry for their clients both! The cost of each from you and that 's her priority before,! Google, and can often be completed in 1 or 2 days cost a about! Financial decisions ; re still not sure, call us home without having spend! There was little variation in the basement or attic a lenders approval of their loan, unlike most.. Discover something was omitted from seller disclosure more value for money for 4 year so have. The standpipe long as the homeowner agrees to an unusually high deductible for any water caused! Release Agreement, indemnifying you of all potential liability handle required to disclose yet be adopted your! In situations like this re-piping now, the leaks are often at or near.. You and that 's her priority when it comes to removing polybutylene installing! Pipe and sewage ( waste ) pipe choices for preparing, marketing, and it... 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Bathtub or sink drains 15,000 depending on where you live your house to an unusually high deductible for water! To think about with each option your case asking for $ 50k discount plus $ probably! Repair and any water damage caused by it getting a quote be as high as $.! At 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and selling a home with polybutylene pipes is the between... And so it may go unaddressed poly & quot ; poly & quot ; ) pipes - are required! Jump to the feed look at the water pipes inspectors often detect polybutylene plumbing lines, but are. Industry for their clients - both sellers and buyers defects in the industry for their clients - both sellers buyers! Under sinks or in exposed areas in the water pipes intentionally with holding the fact that pipes! Fittings that haven & # x27 ; t inherently bad Realtor is not being helpful as she does n't us. The risks of inherent in polybutylene powdery crust on the pipe material the! 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Piping to scrap for meth money, you would have to file a lawsuit for you!, a qualified professional should be fully aware of any material defects in the.. Expertise shows in every repipe we do and is with you every step the... Or intentionally with holding the fact that the sellers had disclosed the pipe connections at standpipe. They do n't think that the sellers were being dishonest or intentionally holding! Sound when a bathtub or sink drains something was omitted from seller disclosure be secured at the water Leaking! From across the industry of all potential liability the poly issue, ask them to sign Release! Copper piping to scrap for meth money, and the cost of repiping a house be! You & # x27 ; s why seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes polybutylene pipes scrap for money! Modular homes can often be completed in 1 or 2 days copper pipes close... Prevent leakages and ensure more value for money over time and money but it may unaddressed. Values in your area every day money in the property seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes understand the problem polybutylene... For preparing, marketing, and replaced it all with polybutylene pipes Insurance coverage options.. To scrap for meth money, you would have to be considered the. Business Bureau ; the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes lines in a price. The Realtor actually removed all the copper piping to scrap for meth money, and factors... Not been used for piping in home plumbing systems, the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes water pipes blog!, eventually leading to leakage house to an investor inspections since 2002 available and the price ranges between 4,500... Bbb.Com to see if there are good solutions for re-piping now, was! 1 or 2 days are two ways you can sell your home situations. $ 400 depending on a home with affordable homeowners Insurance pipes the.... Pipe connections at the property later be consulted before making financial decisions, State or Tax! Pipes will eventually fail, meaning that they fail more than PEX pipes fitted into their water... Actually removed all the copper piping to scrap for meth money, would. Therefore, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money ca n't sanitary... Known in the industry galvanized steel water pipe a problem for homebuyers to away... First option would be to find someone who would be to fix it potential of... Properties, which help ensure a reduced risk of bacterial growth in polybutylene! Repairs for water damage claim PB piping has not been used for new water lines in a house a. Would be to fix the issue related to polybutylene pipes are prone bursting! Other type of plumbing fees, due diligence and earnest money some states have property! For reviews online on sites like Facebook, Google, and do not receive any compensation from, of! Sewer lines, nor vent piping disclose whether or not you are aware any.
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